View source for Template talk:Lang-rus

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{{WikiProject Linguistics}}
{{WikiProject Russia|lang=yes}}
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==comments by Kwamikagami==

I've found that I've been missing these IPA transcriptions when cleaning up transclusions of IPA-ru, so I'm splitting them off. I ''think'' that this will make maintenance easier; if we decide to change how something is represented at IPA for Russian, it will be more straightforward to bring the articles into line if they all transclude through the same template. But let me know if you disagree for some reason: We could also make this clear on the docs for the IPA-ru template. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 09:02, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

:This is an experimental template (a "suggested modification of {{tl|Lang-ru}}" as it's said in its Docs). The idea is that later the code of {{tl|Lang-ru}} will be replaced with this template's code thus allowing not only the Russian spelling, but romanization and phonetic transcription to be included — in a standard and proper way. In theory it includes the functionality of {{tl|Lang-ru}}, i.e. replacing with {{tl|Lang-rus}} should not change how the page looks. So, I prefer to keep it being used to check whether its code causes any troubles.

:I suppose the problem with splitting the Russian IPA transcriptions into two different templates can be solved by using of {{tp|IPA-ru}} within this template. I guess it could look like this:

::<code><nowiki>{{LangWithName|ru|Russian|{{{1|}}}}}{{#if:{{{r|{{{2|}}}}}}|, <small>[[Romanization of Russian|tr.]]</small> ''{{{r|{{{2}}}}}}''}}{{#if:{{{p|{{{3|}}}}}}|, {{IPA-ru|[{{{p|{{{3}}}}}}]}}}}</nowiki></code>

:[[User:Hellerick|Hellerick]] ([[User talk:Hellerick|talk]]) 04:21, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
::Yeah, that could work, but kill the brackets. IPA-ru already supplies them. (Or rather, loose the first one and change the 2nd one to a pipe, or you'll get "<small>Russian pronunciation</small>" thrown in.) 
::I try going through the IPA-xx transclusions every once in a while and cleaning up the stuff that doesn't correspond to the conventions it links to. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]])

Also, at [[Soviet Union]], this template with the IPA included forced the main text to start below the info box, leaving a huge white space on my (small) browser. Splitting off the IPA solved the problem. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 09:02, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

:Hm, I don't know what are you talking about. I checked how the page looked in four browsers and it was okay in all of them. [[User:Hellerick|Hellerick]] ([[User talk:Hellerick|talk]]) 04:21, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
::I'm on one of those little Acer laptops w a small screen. AWB doesn't display properly either: there's a bug where all the buttons on the bottom of the window are cut off, and the AWB team has been unable to solve it. So I don't think it's the browser. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 06:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

== Audio ==

Would it be possible/easy to add audio functionality like that of {{tl|IPA-ru}}?  Ideally, it would just be an additional switch, with the option of using ''a=''  Overall, this is a really good idea, and we need to replicate it with other languages.  [[User:Xyzzyva|— ˈzɪzɨvə]] ([[User talk:Xyzzyva|talk]]) 21:10, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

:Well, I guess it could look like this:
:<code><nowiki>{{LangWithName|ru|Russian|{{{1|}}}}}{{#if:{{{r|{{{2|}}}}}}|, <small>[[Romanization of Russian|tr.]]</small> ''{{{r|{{{2}}}}}}''}}{{#if:{{{p|{{{3|}}}}}}|, {{IPA-ru|[{{{p|{{{3}}}}}}]}}}}<small>{{#if:{{{a|{{{4|}}}}}}|&nbsp; {{nowrap|([[File:Speaker Icon.svg|13px|link=|alt=]] [[:Media:{{{a|{{{4|}}}}}}|listen]])}}}}</small></nowiki></code>
:Thus introducing the fourth parameter, named ''a'' with the audio file name. [[User:Hellerick|Hellerick]] ([[User talk:Hellerick|talk]]) 12:05, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

== what gives? ==

This has been here since 2009‎, and is now at [http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&name=Template%3ALang-rus#bottom 298 transclusions]. Compared to [http://toolserver.org/~jarry/templatecount/index.php?lang=en&name=Template%3ALang-ru#bottom lang-ru's 32169 transclusions], that's basically nothing. Should something be done? --[[User:Joy|Joy &#91;shallot&#93;]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 08:39, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

: Ditto for [[Template:Lang-ru test]]. --[[User:Joy|Joy &#91;shallot&#93;]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 18:36, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
::The original intent was to replace {{tl|lang-ru}} with this one. I think after three years of testing this can safely be done, unless it breaks something on the larger scale. Also, this template still has one unfixed bug (if I remember correctly, audio file link does not show unless IPA parameter is also supplied). The test template can definitely be shot.—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); March&nbsp;28, 2012; 18:50 (UTC)

== When will we update the "Lang-ru" template? ==

Some questions on timing:
#When will we incorporate the ''IPA'' and audio-file (''a='') parameters into the "Lang-ru" template?
#Are there any specific plans to do this by a given date, say: '''30 June 2020'''?
#Are there any outstanding problems with this template?
#(e.g.) Does the audio-file require the IPA parameter to be set, as mentioned earlier on this page)?

I'd rather use ''this'' version of the template, which makes IPA and audio-file parameters available for editors to '''improve Wikipedia''', than the older version, which doesn't.  But apparently, few editors are aware this even exists!  [[User:Yahya Abdal-Aziz|yoyo]] ([[User talk:Yahya Abdal-Aziz|talk]]) 17:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
:I too would like {{tlf|lang-rus}} parameters/code to be incorporated into {{tlf|lang-ru}}. Also, the new {{tlf|lang-ru}} page should show various examples in Russian (currently, it shows examples in German). The page should also clearly state whether to include the accent or not – {{tlf|lang-ru|коро́ва}} vs. {{tlf|lang-ru|корова}} (I think it should be included, as foreign speakers misplace the accent in Russian words so often, but we should have a vote on it). --[[Special:Contributions/46.242.12.2|46.242.12.2]] ([[User talk:46.242.12.2|talk]]) 22:05, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
::The accents should definitely NOT be included, we have [[Help:IPA#Marks added to letters|IPA]] for that. And IPA is internationally recognized, while accents are simply misleading for an international community. See [[WP:RUSTRESS]] (yes, it's currently just my personal essay that I use for edit summaries, but people generally agree with it, while valid arguments against it are yet to be seen). Of course I'd also like to see a clearly expressed statement on that. — [[user:Mike Novikoff|Mike Novikoff]] 04:00, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
:Looks like [[:Template:lang-ru]] is set to be deleted, so a merge probably no longer makes sense. [[User:GA-RT-22|GA-RT-22]] ([[User talk:GA-RT-22|talk]]) 18:02, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

== tr. ==

This template uses an acronym, "tr.", which links to [[Romanization of Russian]]. I'm presuming this stands for "transcription", but we should make this explicit using the <code>&lt;abbr&gt;</code> tag, as not all readers will be able to guess what it stands for. [[User:Opencooper|Opencooper]] ([[User talk:Opencooper|talk]]) 19:29, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

== "links=no" by default ==

[[WP:OVERLINKING]] says that language names "with which most readers will be at least somewhat familiar" should not be wikilinked. No doubt, Russian is one of such languages (no less than Arabic, Korean and Spanish given in MoS as examples), and indeed, almost every time I see this template in articles I add <code>links=no</code> if it's not already there.{{pb}}So I suggest making it a default. Article editors will still be able to add <code>links=yes</code> if they deem it necessary (which is highly unlikely, but just in case). Any objections? — [[user:Mike Novikoff|Mike Novikoff]] 16:30, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

:No objections within a week, so I've [[special:diff/988071802|implemented]] it. — [[user:Mike Novikoff|Mike Novikoff]] 22:00, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

:Well, for now, as I can see, all the languages you mentioned as well as other widely spoken languages have their links automatically added and the Russian hasn't. It just looks strange when in the list of names in various languages only Russian language has no corresponding link. [[User:Q-Wert-273|Q-Wert-273]] ([[User talk:Q-Wert-273|talk]]) 16:17, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

None of those languages should have links. The IPA for them already does. A link to the language article adds nothing and just clutters the lead. IMO no language that has a dedicated IPA key should be linked. — [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 07:29, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

:The IPA links lead to Help:IPA pages, not to the articles about the languages, and transcription is not mandatory. If none of the major languages should have such links, then maybe such changes should be discussed and made in an organized manner in all the corresponding templates, and not to one language exclusively? [[User:Q-Wert-273|Q-Wert-273]] ([[User talk:Q-Wert-273|talk]]) 13:32, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

::Of course it would be better if ''all'' the templates complied with MoS. And it would be yet better if we lived in a perfect world altogether. But in our real world it would take much effort, and an organized discussion would at least require a sharp definition of what is "widely known language" and what is not. Meanwhile my approach is not to demand all at once, but to do things step by step. One of the steps is my edit to this template. If you see an inconsistent linking in some article, maybe it's your turn to take further steps, such as adding <code>links=no</code> to the other languages, or maybe even editing some other templates too. It would be definitely much more constructive than arguing that "[[WP:OTHERSTUFF|other stuff exists]]". Better still, start a wider discussion yourself if you can, and I'll definitely support making the templates consistent with each other. — [[user:Mike Novikoff|Mike Novikoff]] 19:50, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

:::Which languages are widely known is indeed a riddle. Also, according to MoS, links shouldn't be added [[MOS:OVERLINK|unless a term is particularly relevant to the context in the article]]. And whether language templates are mostly used in such situations is one more riddle. You resolved these riddles by just turning off linking for one specific language, breaking the established practice of these templates' use. And instead of pinning "[[special:permalink/1015318887|making war]]" on me, you could've taken part in this discussion and write some reply to the objections, which were here for months, but you showed no interest. But OK, I got it, you've made your ''step'' already and it is [[User:Somebody "Notme" Else|someone else's]] turn now to make it smooth and balanced again. [[User:Q-Wert-273|Q-Wert-273]] ([[User talk:Q-Wert-273|talk]]) 07:46, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

== Requested move 14 November 2024 ==
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color: var(--color-error, red);">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''

The result of the move request was: '''I'm withdrawing my request'''. <small>([[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small>  [[User:Absolutiva|Absolutiva]] ([[User talk:Absolutiva|talk]]) 22:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
----

[[:Template:Lang-rus]] → {{no redirect|Template:Lang-ru}} – The previous template has been deleted and replaced by {{tl|Langx}}. I suggest by merging with previous template {{tl|Lang-ru}} instead. [[User:Absolutiva|Absolutiva]] ([[User talk:Absolutiva|talk]]) 05:16, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
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